MadMan ([info]themadman) wrote,
@ 2005-04-28 15:34:00
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Restaurant service for Indians and westerners
I am often asked why I have so many service staff and also how serving Westerners is different from serving Indians. I just finished writing a long email about this to a group of people, so I'm going to post an edited version here:

The service business is all about managing *expectations*. Whether you're rated "good" or "lousy" is a matter of how well you matched the customer's expectations of quality of food and service.

I've never been to USA, but I've talked to a fair few Americans. I've lived in Australia for a few years, and I've grown up around Britons, so I know a bit about what these folks expect by way of service.

Take the American (or most Westerners really), for example. His idea of good service is a courteous waiter, menus presented on time, food brought out and placed on his table in reasonable time, and his glass filled from time to time. The American actually gets annoyed by the "fawning" service offered in so many Indian restaurants, where the waiters (mistakenly) believe that the gora sahib wants to be given extra attention and be waited on hand and foot. He tries his best to provide this service and ends up having exactly the opposite effect - he pisses the Westerner off.

In my training, we teach staff how to handle the Westerners differently - be polite, efficient, and don't serve them food like servants. They prefer to do that themselves. They want to be left alone much of the time.

The Indian, on the other hand, has completely different expectations. We live in a "servant" culture. When my Indian customer walks into a fine dining restaurant, he expects to be waited on hand and foot. To him (risking stereotyping here, but largely true), the waiters are like servants who are there to satisfy his every wish. That's what he's paying for, damn it! This means that he expects to be served when the food gets to the table, and served again when the rice on his plate is running out, and for the waiter to show up by his side the moment he raises his finger. If he has to say "excuse me", it's bad service. I've seen far too many people treat waiters like dirt. This might be why I always get treated like a king at my regular haunts. I treat them like humans and talk to them.

So that was what the Indian customer expects. To match this expectation, a waiter has to be watching the table all the time. But if I had just one waiter per section (usually 3-4 tables), who would watch the table when he goes to check in the kitchen or is at another table taking an order? So each section has two people - a "captain" who is a senior person who recommends dishes, tries to accommodate special requirements, and takes orders. There is also a waiter whose job it is to serve the food, fill up water glasses, and be the "servant" the guests expect.

The cuisine a restaurant serves also has some part in it. In a typical European dinner, the plate you put in front of your customer has everything he needs - the steak, the mashed potatoes, the veggies. He doesn't need a refill on that. In an Indian or Oriental (at least Oriental here in India) meal, you are served a bit of rice and a bit of the chicken curry and a bit of the veggies. When you finish that, you take some more. Hence you need a guy to do this job. If I were runing a true blue Italian joint, for example, I would manage with fewer staff.

Actually, I only have 7 waiters and 4 captains, which given that I have a separate cocktail lounge, isn't too many. Trust me, I've tried to manage with fewer, but service always suffered. It was hell on weekends, and customers got annoyed. Without them, alas, I can't make money.

Thus ends my long-winded explanation. Hope you're still awake.

Actually, wait. I need to narrate a true story to illustrate my point of the Indian diner's expectations.

A few years ago, I was at the Hyatt Regency in Delhi for a buffet lunch. It's a five star hotel. I was standing in line along with other people waiting to fill my plate. I get to the tandoor section where they're making hot kababs. One of the chefs sees me and asks me if I'd like a piece of Tandoori chicken, which I happily accept. As I keep moving on, I hear another gentleman behind me asking the chef in an angry tone, "what is that?" to which the chef replies, "that's tandoori chicken sir." The upset gentleman then loudly asks him, "so why you are not offering it to me?" I turn around and the chef is looking at the gentleman with an expression that says, "Are you fucking kidding me?" The gentleman continues, "You asked him; you should ask me also na!"

I shook my head, winked at the chef, and went back to the table, wondering what culture people like the Shiv Sena are trying to protect. Our "culture" has long left the building.


This has been a MadMan presentation. ;)


PS: I also would like to mention that 80% of guests are unbelievably lousy tippers. The other 20% are the saving grace. When I see a Rs. 19 tip for a bill of Rs. 1581, I feel sad, even though I don't keep a cent for myself. Please be nice... tip in the region of 10% if the service was good. You will be remembered. Keep a cap of Rs. 200 if you want so you don't need to leave Rs. 500 for a bill of Rs. 5000.



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hey waiter there is my fly in his soup
[info]poocha9
2005-04-28 10:26 am UTC (link)
I have always been good to waiters after my chef friend told me that if ur rude to them they will spit in your food;)

But seriously some people do think that a waiter is some kind of slave and has to be treated in a demeaning manner,- when i see such people even i wont mind walking up to their table and spitting/pissing in their soup.

But one thing i hate are fawning waiters or the over friendly types who fall all over you to fill up your glass or light up ur smoke,I can do all that on my own thank you.

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[info]deelight
2005-04-28 11:22 am UTC (link)
Very interesting read and more importantly a good observation of the Indian customer's psyche. I totally agree with you on them wanting to be waited upon...that explains their rude behaviour towards air hostesses too. It's just disgusting and as you rightly said it's time we moved on from protecting ourselves behind the farce of 'sabhyata'.

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[info]dhempe
2005-04-28 11:51 am UTC (link)
Nice read MadMan. But yes as you mention yourself, you cannot stereotype anybody. But I respect your opinion based on the number of people you might have interacted with, in your career.

Personally, I prefer self-service.

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[info]poocha9
2005-04-28 11:59 am UTC (link)
Personally, I prefer self-service.---- cool next time we sit and u get us our beers;)

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[info]themadman
2005-04-28 12:05 pm UTC (link)
No, of course not. But I feed thousands of people every month. :)

This was just an observation of a cultural difference, that's all. Some people are arseholes in any country.

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[info]code_martial
2005-04-28 11:53 am UTC (link)
Please do remember to treat me as a Westerner in this context and I'll help you make some more money. Thank you :)

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[info]themadman
2005-04-28 12:00 pm UTC (link)
Part of the skill in service is to gauge who likes what. ;)

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[info]code_martial
2005-04-28 01:04 pm UTC (link)
Indeed :D

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[info]solzaire
2005-04-28 01:02 pm UTC (link)
Something off-topic: another thing I argued about once with a friend working in a 5-star and which is my holy-grail of 'waitering'. I am extremely finnicky about the amount of water in my glass - the perfect waiter for me is one who can read my mind on that. I don't want it always full like Udipi joints. I don't care too much about the other things though I definitely don't like the servant mode of waitering.
Good observations and well written piece sir.

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[info]themadman
2005-04-28 02:07 pm UTC (link)
Water must be refilled only when the level in the glass has dipped below 50%. I've encountered waiters who refill it the moment you take a few sips.

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(Anonymous)
2008-05-30 06:37 am UTC (link)
You maniac.

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[info]notanangel78
2005-04-28 01:48 pm UTC (link)
I hate fawning waiters as well. Two days ago, we'd gone out for lunch. When the food arrived, I saw everyone sitting still. So i said, "What are we waiting for?" And my friend said, "Let them serve na."
I don't like being served coz, how will the waiter know which piece i want and how much i want?:D It is also as embarassing, as when my driver offers to carry my bags when i return from a shopping expedition. I never let him, in the same way, i prefer serving myself.

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[info]jackol
2005-04-28 01:57 pm UTC (link)
Man, I never knew you use this blog! I thought you use it to post comments around the place. :)

Nice read! Thanks.

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[info]themadman
2005-04-28 02:06 pm UTC (link)
I use it for writing random tidbits that don't fit on my main blog.

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[info]luv_serendipity
2005-04-28 02:45 pm UTC (link)
This is very well put. I dislike being served too..I rather do it myself. But then again somedays its nice to be served. I am sure the NRIs hardest to figure out in terms of how the waiters should behave with them. We are always so confused either way!! :D

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[info]madhav
2005-04-28 04:22 pm UTC (link)
Excellent post. Thanks for sharing!

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[info]themadman
2005-04-28 08:21 pm UTC (link)
Thanks you so much! *hugs* :p

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[info]arucard2
2005-04-29 12:04 am UTC (link)
that was wicked :)

nice post.

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[info]madhav
2005-04-30 02:56 am UTC (link)
Ouch.

I honestly did think it was a well written and informative post, btw.

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nice on from an insider
(Anonymous)
2005-04-28 11:04 pm UTC (link)
Madhu,
I was curious.Do you add gratuity for large groups .If not I think you should do it to avoid people tipping miserly amounts.

Also do check out http://waiterrant.blogspot.com/ - a blog by a NYC waiter.

Shiva

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Re: nice on from an insider
[info]themadman
2005-04-29 04:46 am UTC (link)
Been to waiter rant, thanks. No, we don't add gratuity for large groups. That kind of thing wouldn't fly here in India.

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[info]azooey
2005-04-29 04:31 am UTC (link)
This is incredible stuff! Thanks for sharing this.

Me plans to start a restaurant when I'm 40. Dont ask me why 40. But its been a dream with me for a while. Your advice will not be forgotten in a hurry.

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No dignity of labor
(Anonymous)
2005-04-29 05:57 am UTC (link)
Another problem in India is that there is no dignity of labor. The captain will never do the waiter's job! The person at the gas-pump who collects money will feel that it is below dignity to fill gas. I wonder whether this attitude also adds to existing inefficiencies.

-Prabhu

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[info]frozenaftermath
2005-04-29 08:15 am UTC (link)
Delhi really sucks when it comes to service, it takes the cake, bakery and even the whole compound it was situated in.

One thing they don't understand is how to treat people equally and how it might just impress the guest into becoming a regular at a place. Here, most of the waiters fall either into ones who have the 'I-am-god' attitude or the others who are totally clueless. Personally, I hate the former more.

Even at a place like Olive's, where I had walked in wearing track pants and bathroom slippers :D, they tend to overdo it and fail where they should excel - our damned overpriced soup was so cold that it might even have been brought in from a freezer. We had to ask them to warm it up again! It just gets even worse when it comes to the five star hotels and The Marriott is the worst of the lot. Really, really horrible, that one is.

In other places here, ex: Forum, which is now dead, they can't even keep the table arrangements consistent. Of course, they think that just because you look like a village idiot, you'd not know anything about service and the lot.

My favorite waiter to date here is a chap named Khan at Turquoise Cottage. Lovely chap with no airs at all and he always goes the extra mile to try and accommodate you and your gang. He is more of a friend now than anything else. I always make it a point to tip him at least Rs. 50, irrespective of whether it was above the 10% rule (no, we don't drink ourselves silly every time ;-)) as a token of personal appreciation and I don't have any qualms about it.

And yes, I hate having them hovering above my head all the time. They just need to be around and accessible without too much trouble.

You might have read it before, but this one, http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/mar/16spec.htm, more or less explains the situation well.


Just in case you were wondering who I am, I am the same evil one who joined the dark side ;-)

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Tipping
(Anonymous)
2005-04-29 08:32 am UTC (link)
MadMan,
I personally don't like the idea of 'tipping'. One reason for that is 'coz I don’t want to measure service in monetary terms. Also, I'm uneasy at deciding how much or how less to give. I believe it’s better to add a 10% service charge to the bill and divide it among the waiter. Good service and consistency are not nice-to-have features (to be given incentives); they should be mandatory.

Ahh...! But then, what about the price-conscious Indian customers… :-)

Also, I'd like to see a buzzer/call switch (like in flights) on each table for calling waiters when required.

I read all your blogs, Great stuff.

Cheers!!
Ajith

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(Anonymous)
2005-04-30 11:12 pm UTC (link)
This is right on the money.

A perspective from the US - I live in Boston and my American friends uniformly love the food in Indian restaurants but are less than impressed by the service. I can see where they're coming from. In one upscale Boston restaurant, we have everything from tiny tables, to oversized dishes, to sloshed water and wine, to main dishes being dumped on the (small) table when people are still working through their appetizers. My theory is that everyone and his untrained bhanja works there perhaps because it's cheaper than hiring trained waiters. A pity because the food is good; and one never hears this complaint about a swanky Italian restaurant.

amr
http://amrboston.blogspot.com

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[info]exquisitely_moi
2005-05-02 04:44 am UTC (link)
OMG I totally agree with everything you wrote in this post. I find it infuriating that there is no dignity of labour in Indian culture (as someone rightly pointed out) and that service staff everywhere is treated like trash. Whenever my Indian friends (students, that too!) complain about how the waiter is not good enough(aka waiter is not servile enough) or when they whine and ask "How difficult is it to get it right?!", I suggest to them that they should try waiting tables for just one day to get an idea of what it is. I was a waitress at Komala's [the Indian fast-food joint, which you probably know of...having been to Singapore a few times :)] for a couple of days and gawd, my respect for the entire service industry shot up like never before!

The same attitude of superiority and disdain is carried on to other places too! It doesn't hurt much to say 'Thank you' to waiters, cab-drivers, bus-drivers who wait for you to make that frantic dash for the bus, receptionists, polite customer service staff at the other end of the phone-line, etc.

Phew...Ok, end of rant! :P

Stumbled upon your LJ randomly, through someone else's page :)

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PS: I also would like to mention that 80% of guests are unbelievably lousy tippers.
[info]vijucat
2005-05-20 03:46 pm UTC (link)
Great write-up! The example about the Hyatt is spot on Indian crap.

But, I ask, maybe in ignorance : why does the custom of tipping make sense?

(rant mode on)
Since I've been to Japan last July, where there is no custom of tipping, I find the lack of pressure to leave some money above and beyond what I payed already relieving. Didn't the meal include meal, music, service & ambience, already? Doesn't the waiter's job include what he does? Don't you pay your waiters? Why would you ask your customers to pay your staff?

In India, and in the limited parts of the US that I've seen (New York, to be particular), I found that no waiter does his/her job without continually hinting in some way that he is not doing it "for free", that he is expecting a fat tip at the end, or else....

Just as you would not have yourself or a staff of yours be treated as a "servant", your customer has most probably come to your restaurant to pay a bill of Rs. 1581 after a hard day and would like to get a break.
(rant mode off)

:) Some of the pointed questions came dil se, from being a frustrated customer...so please dont take it personally AT ALL...never been to your restaurant (am from Hyderabad and now in Japan), but have heard a lot of praise for it from my boss, who used to live in Bangalore.

Maybe you could write a post on the topic of tipping.

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[info]swamysk
2005-11-01 02:04 pm UTC (link)
What do you do when its a mix of Indians and Westerners on one table?

You're going to have one such table tonight ;-) Although the "Indian" on that table will be (I hope!) no different to the westerners when it comes to treating your staff. Purely for stats, its one Brit, one Aussie who is also Brit and an Indian who remains Indian but has picked up a bit of the Brits......

Enjoy

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(Anonymous)
2009-09-20 05:20 pm UTC (link)
I wish I had read your great article before working at an Indian wedding. I am a caucasian woman and a school teacher here in California. I pour wine for weddings as my fun 2nd job. I was treated very poorly as a server and a woman. At one point my life was threatened because of it - insanity! I was in shock as I watched very nice people become very rude and dramatic. A child wanted some water and I was told I was treating her like a slave because she didn't have it fast enough. Later I was told that I was genetically predisposed to be a stupid server. Like I stated, I'm a teacher and far from stupid. The whole event was mindblowing.

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